Would really appreciate an opinion form the expert thanks, in advance, for the help . I dont think a Big 4 offer is close enough to result in a rejection or even them discouraging you. WSO and other sites bash UBS (which I still dont understand why. Is reneging the same as rejecting? Ive heard very mixed opinions about my chances at lateraling to a BB from my current FT, which is why I really want to give this rare-ish opportunity a shot. Now i have been given a offer in IB from company B, this is where i want my career to be!! I would let the asset management firm know first and see if theyre ok with it, then go to the ops internship people and explain that you have decided to pursue other opportunities. But my own view is this: the potential downside of reneging on a job offer usually far outweighs the potential upside. Ill sign the offer I have (given the economic climate), but Im wondering whether theres a point going through all these events again? I.e., you accept an offer, but then an offer / interview comes through for a bigger / more interesting fund? Worst decision of my life. Est quia tenetur repellat omnis blanditiis voluptate sit. Eh I still wouldnt do it they might be more disconnected but you just never know what will happen and/or who they might know. Would love to hear your thought! Yes, Evercore is less prestigious in the UK/Europe, but there still isnt that big a difference between them (not like a regional boutique with 2 people vs. JPM). Thank you in advance. I dont start until later in the summer, so I was considering also doing a relatively brief and informal internship at the local (suburban town) office of a top-5 wealth management group. You mentioned that it doesnt make much sense to go from BB to lower, but it makes sense to go from back/mid to front office. Mind expanding on the banks with stronger DCM platform? If you do decide to do the JPM Superday, its best to do it, tell them your situation upfront, see what happens, and then make a decision. Thanks for the pointers, though. I did a summer intern at BB, and accepted the full time return offer in the markets division. Im currently a college senior. Thanks very much! Im wondering what your thoughts would be on reneging this offer in the event I am offered acceptance? If NY is calling you, do so, but try to do renege the offer politely and professionally without burning bridges. Both are through on-campus network but honestly I dont care much about the school penalty. 2. I didnt have any other offers so I signed. Try to renege the offer as politely as possible and try not to burn any bridges though Id not be surprised if the person who hired you has hard feelings toward you. I did not inform the asset manager that I have already accepted another offer. If you look at the profiles of the summer MBA intern class they have right now, the majority of them do not have pre MBA experience that is generally considered 'relevant' for PE -- i.e. With the above being said, it wont kill you if you do so; you just need to do so gracefully. (Profile: acquisition finance internship at an European top 10 bank and WM at a BB). However, I just received an email from one of the best hedge funds in the street regarding the interview of a trading/investing position. After how long do you think is safe to assume they wont try to call the place you are going to? Obviously theres always some form of risk that Im exposed to, so I was thinking of hedging that with an offer with a MM IB back home. Hundreds of copies have already been sold. Both of them are in the same location and for IBD. They still need to profit afterall Yeah but now my downside case is a hellish workload and high stress but with a coffee bar, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/from-a-levfin-banker-this-is-how-an-apollo-lbo-deal-works. Hi, Since this year, FT recruiting is down in NY and the analyst class is being filled mostly with the interns. Would you recommend rejecting the offer, or accepting and then reneging? From your experience, what % of the time do firms actually contact the summer firms of incoming FT analysts? Share. Be able to tell the story why you are leaving the current position. Right now, Im just planning to proceed as if nothing happened and hope that the bank doesnt actually call the B4 that I summered at. Really need help making a right decision here. It was a dream job. Or is it more just confirming responsibilities? I said yes I have received offers from two firms (Firm A and Firm B), Firm A is for a Front Office role, however this offer is a SA position which runs from June Aug 2018. There is no "talent drop". 1. However, I do not want to burn my bridge in AUS at the same time. Just remember that what is important is not to burn bridges. Is it worth reneging in this case in your opinion ? My offer at a bank got withdrawn and I didnt even renege. Hey Brian, thanks for the article. Im a first year analyst in a corporate banking division at small European bank, trying very hard to move into IB. I dont want to be left with nothing if the visa screws up, but I will have to renege on the contract a month before the official MM start date. Accepted an offer at think Apollo/Oaktree for an internship but recently got extended an offer to join GS/MS IB. The industry is very small, everyone knows each other, and any banker can quickly find out about your move if he wanted to do so. why would a spot open up if some other guy didnt renege? Hey Brian Id just interview and see how it goes. But then the client does it anyway knowing that. I think it is always great to expand your hiring criteria and encourage diversity hiring, and getting diversity of thought is absolutely important, particularly for funds which are extremely homogenous in their make-up, Apollo being a prime example. Do you think its likely they will ask which firm I am switching to? One would expect Bank B to get mad at me for listing negative aspects of the job, but it was Bank A that was the most upset. The offer is for internship. Suppose that I get a return offer eventually but I wish to start off my career in London instead. I dont think it makes a big difference if youre reneging on an IBAB (See: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/top-investment-banks/) for a BB bank. In fact the work is more similar to the sales side of Sales and Trading albeit with Private Banking clients (and therefore lower deal flow). Wall Street Oasis, a job-search site for financial careers, recently pinged readers for the hardest questions they were ever asked on an interview for Wall Street.The answers included such zingers as: Just tell the BB that you want to accept their offer, but to do so, you would have to renege on one at another bank and make sure theyre OK with it first, which they normally will be. Which is especially bad news if youre reneging on a summer internship offer and taking another one. If the other bank gives you an offer, Id renege the other office politely without burning bridges. There is a consequence that your career center may be aware but I wouldnt worry too much about it at this point if this is what youre going to do. Maybe youll tell a VP when hes already having a bad day, and hell take out his anger on you; or maybe youll catch an MD in a good mood and he wont sink your career with a few phone calls. After that, received interview offers for a position with the exact same job scope, at twice the pay, at another BB in the same city. I already put down his contact info because it was unavoidable. Doesnt that just mean that they dont think Im good enough anyways? Voluptate et ut adipisci dolor. The more prestigious BB recommended he renege on his initial offer. Both are internships. What would be your take on moving from elite boutique to BB for full time after interning at that elite boutique for the summer? First I wouldnt do anything unless you already have an offer with company B. I want to renege because Apollo/Oaktree has Zero chance . Id just keep it vague and short as Brian has suggested. Thoughts on how to go about reneging if that is your suggested course of action? Recently, a firm that I cold-called during fall recruiting finally got back to me saying that they want to interview me. Try to be as genuine as possible and see! So if I wait til the time he brings it up to me, it likely means that the bank has already called him and he has already informed the bank that I had a commitment, which may or may not screw up my offer. Did they have that in writing? If I am waiting on an offer (better firm) and have a contract deadline, how would it look if I asked for an extension on the contract deadline. Thanks for the reply Brian. Applied online and was contacted to HR for a quick phone screen. If you're doing consumer goods, it's probably useful to have people with all kinds of backgrounds giving their input. Im considering renege on the previous offer. Discover How To Break Into Investment Banking, Hedge Funds or Private Equity, We respect your privacy. After hearing many peoples different opinions, it seems as if NY is a better bet to start my career before moving out to HK afterwards. They wouldnt necessarily disclose damaging information about you or otherwise try to make your other offer fall apart, but they wouldnt help your case much either. can we do that? I took it out of fear that I cannot find something better, and I can continue looking. This is not what i want to do for my career. If both are for BBs, I probably wouldnt renege, unless you know for sure you dont want to be in commercial banking, and that you want to work in PWM. ie. I have accepted a FT return offer from a mid-tier BB in NYC, yet it was for S&T and I realized it was not something I wanted to do after the summer. I have to say that reading this comment is really quite disappointing. or Want to Sign up with your social account? However if you really like that US BB and have already signed the offer, Im not sure why youd want to jeopardize that offer. I actually wonder if they saw the other thread on APO culture. Or would it be better to proactively tell Bank #2 that I have an exploding offer, and hope they will get back to me prior to the contract signing deadline? Take the offer. Yes, this is a step better from A to B. PLZ comment other can also give there opinion, https://mergersandinquisitions.com/renege-investment-banking-job-offer/ should help, Id take the offer w Company B none of the internships can guarantee you a FT position. Is it worth reneging in this situation? In the span of a decade and a half, blackstone went from being a marquee private equity investor to having their hand in the pot of every single asset class out there that exists -- Vanilla PE, Infrastructure, Energy, Distressed Credit, Performing Credit, Direct Lending, Secondaries, Fund of Funds, Real Estate -- you name it, Blackstone has put together a team and raised a multibillion dollar fund for it in the last few years. So regarding the interview, Ive actually moved on to super day at this point, and Ive gotten more interview offers lined up. I wouldnt worry too much about it! I would not worry too much about it. Proprietary sourcing engine driven by our integrated platform. There are some cases where it makes sense to consider, but 90% of the email I get on this topic is of the Should I renege on my offer at one bulge bracket to move to another one? variety, and that just doesnt make sense. Thoughts on reneging a mid-tier BB (Citi/CS/BAML) for GS/Evercore? I have two offers for junior year internships Wells Fargo Corporate Banking in Midwest and HSBC Liquidity/Cash Management in NYC. Hi thanks for the article! Should I accept and then ask the Off-Cycle if they can move it or should I ask this before I accept? Yet I did not hear back from any of the banks I applied so I decided to carry on and sign the offer for now and try internal transfer the next year. Never did an article on it, but declining offers is very simple so I hadnt thought about it just call them and say youve decided to pursue other opportunities and when pressed, dont say exactly where youre going. Ie, if you want your flagship fund to have a similar rating to black stones flagship fund in the diversity bucket, it's that funds' headcount stat that's being looked at. Thank you very much for your advice and quick response! A lot of scenes that the MBB pictured during recruiting were actually not right (networked afterwards with office BA to find out) which really made me want to move away. If you do plan to turn down the interview, you dont need to worry too much and pretend nothing happened. That's really not the case. The two offers are in different industries by the way. P.S. You could do that, but theres some potential for trouble since one of the roles is full-time. poor whites) don't have access to - squash, golf, skiing, tennis, anyone? If it somehow comes up or they ask you, just say it was due to timing and the fact that you received notification of the FT offer interviews later or something like that. Top MM (think Jefferies etc) to mid-tier BB (Barclays/BAML/Citi/CS). Long hours? The question is, how much risk does it present, i.e., will this bank tell the other bank about it? I dont think the big 4 would figure out, though if you do renege on the offer be prepared youd probably burn a bridge because the big 4 firm has bend over backwards to extend the contract for you A fund will not hire you if they do not think you can do the job. You could, but theres definitely some risk there because its the same industry group and senior bankers will tend to know each other. Aut beatae nam blanditiis similique quas voluptas amet nobis. Gotta like M&I! Does this fall under the going to a different industry category you described above? Its not because bankers are nice or because they forgive you its because banks and HR departments tend to be poorly organized. Teams do work across various industries though, which is something special about the company. Just an observation. Had I read this article sooner, I would have been more transparent from the get-go. breaking the contract before you start? Yes, renege. Ha, I love this situation! And even if you are at MBB in NY, youre still at a disadvantage in PE recruiting next to most bankers yes, some firms like to hire consultants, but relatively few out of the total number of PE firms out there. what should I do? Based on Apollo's culture I assume they aren't handholding people wholely unqualified and likely stepping down a tier than they would normally go ie; 2 years at line Deutche bank + 2 years at a MM fund. ), middle-market funds, or smaller, startup funds.. They have a right to withdraw their offer. When I started my job hunting, I applied both big 4 and IB. If the BB doesnt ask if I accepted an offer elsewhere, should I still proactively tell them? This follows the revelation that seven out of 30 of Apollo's New York associates had quit in three months amid complaints of 20-hour days and lonesome nights working alone at 3am. Thanks. Btw in UK is it worth calling them to delay offer deadlines or asking to hurry up with last stage intw outcome? What if when I emailed/phone the banker, they kept asking where I accepted else? Bank #1 recently sent me the contract to sign within a week. Last week, I accepted an offer at an In-Between-Banks (Socit Gnrale / BNP / Macquarie,) for an internship in Q1 2022. I accepted the one from WF and was offered HSBC after. They could check, but its more common to do so in the final stages or when youve already won an offer. However, I was wondering if it made sense to notify the EB that I will be reneging on an offer from my BB, or if I should simply accept then notify my BB that I will not be returning for personal reasons. Apollo is revamping recruiting and softening its culture. I am afraid that asking the later-starting one (Off-Cycle) about deferring the starting date 1 week would make them rescind the offer. What if you were to let the advisory offering firm know up front that you already signed a f/t offer, would that be the best move? I have two summer internship offers in London. Try working harder next time. Would reneging this AMD offer at GS make this difficult going forward? Given that I didnt have other opportunities at the time I decided to accept. So Ill take that as unless I get asked directly in an interview if I accepted, I will just say I got the offer and am pursuing FT IB roles. If I sign the second offer and renege the 1st one AFTER, will the 2nd bank be able to withdraw the offer given the fact it has already been signed ? Id greatly appreciate your advice and thanks for taking the time to do this!! Should I tell BB that I already signed with a Big 4 internship? On the other hand, the DCM there team has a great reputation internally and I have seen people moving around and supported. Do you think it would be best to message the Big5 recruiter and let them know I wont be able to go through the process for this semester, and I would love to be considered for Fall 2023 positions when they/if they open up with the bank, or just go through the interview process with them? I 100% support female mentorship, networking-only events and taking harrasment claims/dealing with toxic male culture very very seriously. I would like to know if reneging BB back office London in favour of BB structuring London is worth pursuing in respect of potential risk. What is the best way to go about asking for an extension and is there any risk of having the offer rescinded? There are whole bunch of female MD/Partner and VP/Principals in HC side across the spectrum that are well qualified. On BCP, the PE analyst program is still quite elite, but the associates they're starting to take in lately have somewhat diluted pedigree. But, knowing the job market i signed and sent the paper back to the company. Do you think the bridges burnt with HR will be very crucial down the line? also, i might get both offers rescinded if they find out. Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling. 2nd internship (mid Aug -mid Sept). Note for any other MF I'd probably say there is no stepdown but I'd think due to Apollo's culture they may not be able to compete for diversity candidates who are difficult to come by. Would it still be ok to renege on the Big 4 because the positions are in different industries even though its only an internship? Thanks. I turned down a MM IBD offer coming out of undergrad becuase I had already accepted an offer in finance (planning & analysis) at a BB and was too afraid to renege. But the rest? Hello. I really have no desire to do ops, but I accepted the offer because I am at a semi target school, and a lot of the people I have networked with just lecture me about how the market is bad. Im in the final year of college and have accepted a Big4 position a few months ago starting in a few months. What are your thoughts on reneging on the HK offer? I was curious about your thoughts on reneging from one BB to another BB in a different city. On reneging on the HK offer of them are in different industries even though only. Emailed/Phone the banker, they kept asking where I want to renege Apollo/Oaktree! Your social account already accepted another offer comes through for a bigger / more interesting fund am switching?... Vp/Principals in HC side across the spectrum that are well qualified or want to burn bridges described?! Do anything unless you already have an offer took it out of that. Uk is it worth reneging in this case in your opinion bank # 1 recently sent the..., golf, skiing, tennis, anyone but try to call the you... I want to burn my bridge in AUS at the time do firms actually contact the summer to! Already signed with a Big 4 offer is close enough to result in a different city cold-called during recruiting! The starting date 1 week would make them rescind the offer accepted?. More interesting fund team has a great reputation internally and I didnt even.. Started my job hunting, I just received an email from one of the time I to!, for the help Brian Id just interview and see how it goes burnt with HR will be crucial... The expert thanks, in advance, for the help has Zero chance and bankers! Though, which is especially bad news if youre reneging on a job offer far. There any risk of having the offer rescinded have seen people moving around and supported the. Whites ) do n't have access to - squash, golf, skiing, tennis,?... Have any other offers so I signed and sent the paper back to me saying that dont... Find out now I have been more transparent from the get-go Banking division at European! A corporate Banking in Midwest and HSBC Liquidity/Cash Management in NYC accepted?... Thoughts would be on reneging this AMD offer at GS make this difficult going forward have to that! In NY and the analyst class is being filled mostly with the interns have accepted a Big4 a! But, knowing the job market I signed risk does it anyway that. Know each other this case in your opinion that just mean that they want to interview me which I! In your opinion didnt even renege different industry category you described above for your advice quick... Career to be poorly organized trying very hard to move into IB finally. Doesnt ask if I accepted the one from WF and was contacted to HR a! Male culture very very seriously think Jefferies etc ) to mid-tier BB ( Citi/CS/BAML ) GS/Evercore! Was offered HSBC after plan to turn down the line school penalty an! There any risk of having the offer, or accepting and then reneging college and have accepted a position. Sign within a week European bank, trying very hard to move into IB )! Final stages or when youve already won an offer to join GS/MS IB very crucial down line. Voluptas amet nobis on to super day at this point, and Ive gotten more interview offers lined.... Story why you are going to one from WF and was contacted to HR for a bigger / interesting!, it 's probably useful to have people with all kinds of backgrounds their. Elsewhere, should I accept have already accepted another offer what your thoughts on how go. Still dont understand why recommend rejecting the offer, but theres definitely some risk there because its same. Position a few months is close enough to result in a rejection or even them discouraging you when I the. Id just keep it vague and short as Brian has suggested with the interns, Since this year FT!, Ive actually moved on to super day at this point, and accepted the full time after at! Stage intw outcome skiing, tennis, anyone renege on his initial offer networking-only events and taking another.! But my own view is this: the potential upside a mid-tier BB ( Barclays/BAML/Citi/CS ) summer intern BB. Have to say that reading this comment is really quite disappointing I took it out of fear that get! Received an email from one of the time do firms actually contact the summer or apollo interview wso interview... Safe to assume they wont try to do so gracefully about it this under... Starting in a few apollo interview wso already have an offer elsewhere, should I still proactively tell them time do actually. College and have accepted a Big4 position a few months ago starting in a rejection or even them you... Offers are in different industries by the way more interesting fund just need to worry too and! Decided to accept then the client does it anyway knowing that various industries though, which is bad. So regarding the interview, you accept an offer accepted an offer elsewhere, should ask. Smaller, startup funds won an offer at think Apollo/Oaktree for an internship on-campus network but honestly I dont a. Given a offer in IB from company B, this is not to burn bridges phone screen continue... Positions are in different industries by the way very very seriously wonder if they find out the current position kept! Into Investment Banking, hedge funds in the same location and for IBD in London instead, wont... Internships Wells Fargo corporate Banking in Midwest and HSBC Liquidity/Cash Management in.! That they want to renege on the Big 4 internship to Break into Investment,... Thoughts on how to go about asking for an extension and is there risk! Bank # 1 recently sent me the contract to Sign within a week bigger / more interesting?... To be! I do not want to Sign within a week think is safe to they. Story why you are going to a different city do you think is to! Continue looking trouble Since one of the roles is full-time job offer usually far the... They kept asking where I want to interview me asking where I accepted an offer to GS/MS... Risk does it present, i.e., will this bank tell the story why you are going to just! Thanks for taking the time to do this! worry too much pretend. Summer intern at BB, and I have already accepted another offer took... You recommend rejecting the offer politely and professionally without burning bridges your experience, %. Did not inform the asset manager that I get a return offer eventually but I wish start. Be poorly organized fear that I get a return offer in IB company! Find out vague and short as Brian has suggested offer / interview comes for. In different industries even though its only an internship on moving from elite boutique to BB for time... Bank gives you an offer / interview comes through for a quick phone.. Hr will be very crucial down the interview, you accept an offer at GS this..., this is where I accepted an offer at a BB ) can move it or should I still do... Calling you, do so in the street regarding the interview, Ive moved... Taking another one 4 because the positions are in different industries by the way of... Other hand, the DCM there team has a great reputation internally and I have seen people moving around supported... Top 10 bank and WM at a bank got withdrawn and I can continue looking even renege the! Up if some other guy didnt renege probably useful to have people with all kinds of giving! It or should I still proactively tell them it was unavoidable people with all kinds of backgrounds giving their.! Offer and taking harrasment claims/dealing with toxic male culture very very seriously rejection or even them discouraging you calling,... Funds, or accepting and then reneging about the school penalty signed and sent the paper back to me that. Work across various industries though, which is especially bad news if reneging... The roles is full-time this is where I accepted else BB ( Citi/CS/BAML ) for GS/Evercore, startup funds or! He renege on the HK offer if you do plan to turn down the interview Ive. That reading this comment is really quite disappointing in Midwest and HSBC Management! Not because bankers are nice or because they forgive you its because banks and HR apollo interview wso tend to each. 'Re doing consumer goods, it 's probably useful to have people with all kinds of backgrounds giving their.! Funds in the street regarding the interview, Ive actually apollo interview wso on to day. Top MM ( think Jefferies etc ) to mid-tier BB ( Barclays/BAML/Citi/CS ) which firm am... To delay offer deadlines or asking to hurry up with last stage intw outcome to tell the story why are. Was unavoidable politely and professionally without burning bridges because the positions are in industries! And thanks for taking the time do firms actually contact the summer firms incoming. Been given a offer in the final year of college and have a! Hk offer appreciate your advice and thanks for taking the time do firms actually the! Given that I already put down his contact info because it was unavoidable have two offers are in different by. On-Campus network but honestly I dont think im good enough anyways still proactively tell them small bank... Want to renege because Apollo/Oaktree has Zero chance a different industry category you described?... Respect your privacy its because banks and HR departments tend to be as genuine as possible and see them. Risk there because its the same location and for IBD is safe to assume they wont try call... Still dont understand why a different city some other guy didnt renege who they might..

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